Selections from ESMB thread titled How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)
Full thread at: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16109
5th February 2010 10:59 AM
I am going to pose two questions to you all. One today, the other tomorrow
The reason I am doing this is in order to give you the chance to experience how one's effort to be aware of, perceive and come to know what one is trying to know can be so mistakenly and easily altered and misdirected into error by the inadvertent addition of simple everyday concepts that we take for granted.
Here is the first question: What is a life?
Ponder it, and if you really want to get something out of this little drill, even write out your answer and, if it causes you to flip into "WTF" or what does he mean by this, etc., etc., note that down too.
I'll be back tomorrow with the next part of this . . . . .
Rog
5th February 2010 01:45 PM
Having now found the time, I would like to address the important points David has raised in his opening post of this thread.
And in that context, I should say what I have to say is not opinion or belief, but a recounting of my own personal experience and that of some others I have worked with. This in the vein David so rightly speaks of is his referenced “Scientology Technology Evaluated” at
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1629.
In it David refers to doing, demonstrating and practicing the claimed knowledge and ability recovered, viz: “Yet on the Lower Grades there is no practice! So how on earth could someone attest to, say, the ‘Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject’ without going outside the Org and trying it out, let alone practicing it. Isn't it ‘Be Do Have’.”
The first thing to say is that the entire line-up of the technology in Scn as regards “BTs/CLs,” “possessions,” “entities” and/or spiritual teammates et al, is tragically flawed.
The main flaw, and it is a disastrous flaw, a damaging and dangerous flaw, is that the whole subject is suppressed and perverted into a “confidential” matter until one reaches OT3.
This has had catastrophic case consequences for many. It did for me personally, and I know it to be so for others.
The truth of this “spiritual connections” phenomena is known in many cultures, including our western civilization, even, and particularly so amongst the “seeker and new age” fraternity. Though it was not “common knowledge” in the West in the 1950’s & ‘60’s.
The observed truth is, in actual practice, that this subject must be addressed on a case when it comes up and processed correctly . . . to suppress the subject and hide it under cloaks of confidentiality as is done in the CofS is disastrous.
This apart from any discussion as to the validity, safety or otherwise of the procedures used when the levels of OT3 and above are processed.
I’ll relate to you my personal experience of this to illustrate what deleterious effects are produced by this tragic error of the CofS tech line up.
The first thing to say is that when I came in Scn in 1957, I was totally spiritually illiterate. I had tried to read some Theosophy materials, and some stuff on yoga and Buddhist principles, but the stuff in those days was so arcane and littered with mumbo-jumbo and ill-defined terms, it was a mess, and I gave up on the “shit.” And besides, I was heavily into the “scientific” thing of being a well muscled, highly trained meat body composed of a bunch of atoms and molecules in happy, coincidental alignment!
As noted in one of my early posts on ESMB, I “blew my Dianetics case” in 1959, when I hit the incident of an earlier life-time death. That is the event that demonstrated to me I was truly a spiritual Being. And it was after that that my case began to run “differently,” and that I began to have various strange “difficulties” in handling stuff that came up on my case.
That ascension that occurred for me in 1959 is when my case “opened up” and “all” my spiritual teammates (you can call them BTs if you wish) and all the other spiritual connections I had began to wake up and manifest their existence on my lines.
The catastrophic trouble was that I and no one else recognized what had happened, and much of my later auditing was engaged in trying to handle these “masses” and “charge” I was experiencing as my own “case” when it was not! Many errors occurred: I was viewing my spiritual connections as though they were my own case or case junk (wrong negative indication on them) I routinely was unwittingly trying to run case I thought was mine when in fact it was that of spiritual connections (and we know that is the way to guarantee things won’t erase or go to true EP) and on and on . . . I could list a catalogue of errors that this circumstance the CofS forces on its people produced.
One of the gravest errors, apart from invalidation of the Beings, is that that whole case area of spiritual connections can get suppressed and negated with its own set of negative consequences . . . such as sick bodies, as an example.
In Knowledgism, there comes a time with a client, if he/she is not already aware of it, when they begin to collide with the spiritual connection phenomena. I had it with a client recently. Something was massing up, not erasing going to EP as it ordinarily would, and the simple questions become:
“Is this (item) yours?”
“Is this (item) a spiritual teammate’s?”
“Is this (item) a spiritual team’s?
If not the client’s, one then switches to correctly handling the spiritual Being or team involved. Alan W developed specific processes for restoring sovereignty to the Being(s) and harmony between you all as an aligned unit.
To fail to do this when any spiritual connection manifests and gets in the way of progressing the client himself to the recovery of his true states a of Being is disastrous. It produces enormous extra charge on the case, it by-passes enormous existing charge on the case, it gives the client wrong indications, wrong whys, wrong whats, and LOSSES tying to handle areas of case incorrectly.
And that’s before the client gets up to the confidential level materials, where those R/Ds have their own liability.
This little write up is a quick first part . . . I’ll get to copyedit it when I get back from the business I have to do. The next part might come tomorrow.
Rog
5th February 2010 06:56 PM
Where to begin, and what to say. That is the problem . . .
I might even break this into two parts, as I will be broaching two subjects which, though related, they are quite different.
As Challenge has noted on this thread, one’s spiritual connections can be one’s friends, a huge source of power and abilities for you. They can be co-processing and learning partners with you. As Challenge noted, they learn as you learn (the good along with the bad) and if you honor and appreciate them they will work with you and each other to upgrade conditions to optimum . . . as Challenge noted, hers use the tech they learned to co-process each other. Mine do too.
Mine also work with me as terminals (co-processors) in aiding me upgrade my condition. Hey, why shouldn’t you have a spiritual Being as a co-processor?
Equally important, my various spiritual teammates have roles and hats to wear in our approach to this game of life on Planet Earth.
I have a team that looks after my body, repairing, maintaining it for us . . . indeed this team was and continues to be was very instrumental in my securing this body and maintaining it as “ours” from those that might try and usurp it form us. (And there is tech involved in that exercise) I did a write up on ESMB on having gone through a death sequence and nearly taking on a new body in 1963 here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...701#post198701
And here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...245#post209245
I have a team that looks after and runs my mind, though I might have lost a key player there due the screwy NOTs tech practices.
I have teams that deal with my “environment” for me/with me, dealing with various aspects of the physical universe and the games we are involved in throughout it.
So I say, based on real personal experience in this subject, that the OT3, NOTs and S/NOTs tech as practiced in the Cof S is a totally dangerous, disastrous, erroneous set of R/Ds.
In fact, it violates one of Hubbard’s key datums: DON’T UNMOCK A WORKING ESTBLISHMENT!
You and your team are an operating unit . . . the tragedy is, that we as humans on planet Earth have lost a lot of our knowledge on this issue, and various aspects of the team/unit operation, alignment and workings have gotten screwed up.
But that can be remedied and made right, and it must be.
The correct approach to this issue of spiritual connections, of whatever type, whether teammates or others, is the approach you would apply to any group or team effort that you would want to optimize as to performance. How stupid would it be to start dismembering a football team or a corporate organization as the process to apply!
The correct approach is to make contact, get into communication, honor and appreciate; validate rightness, abilities and powers, and where necessary apply needed corrective and educative processes so as to upgrade cooperation and performance capacity.
Alan W has said, “People treat their spiritual teammates the way they treat people!" Hubbard sure and hell demonstrated that!
So, in light of the above, is it any wonder there is so much incidence of various difficulties encountered by many who have done these “BT/Cluster” handling R/Ds of the “church’? Hell no! No wonder in my mind at all!
This is getting a little long so I think I’ll end off, and do Part 3 next. It deals with what you really want to hear . . . the subject of what the hell happened to/for me with my 12 years on S/NOTs. It also deals with the subject of addressing/processing spiritual Beings at large.
RogerB
7th February 2010 02:49 PM
Sorry I've been a little slow in getting back to you all on this but here is the next part.
On Feb. 5, in post #131, I posed the following question that you might look to answer for yourselves.
"the first question: What is a life?"
It is a specific question, and will likely have sparked an instant answer. If you will, you might now recall that answer. There is no right or wrong in this, by the way. Your answer is your answer. You are not being judged here.
Now, here is the second part of the exercise.
The question is: What is life?
Look at you instant answer to this question . . . . . .
Now compare your answers to each question . . . . . notice any difference?
Did you notice that the two questions of the exercise are quite different, even if in some respects, similar?
Notice that by the addition of just one tiny concept or word, the question is changed. It directs your attention, your "mind" differently?
In this case it was a very common, very familiar oft used concept that was added . . . so common it often gets in the way of folks' ability to actually inspect with exactitude.
This little exercise is also an example of the precision with which one needs to craft processing commands. And also an example of the need to be precise with the language we use.
Here is another example.
In Scn, if you look at the use of the Prep Check buttons, you'll see questions phrased as:
"On (subject/item) has anything been suppressed?" Etcetera.
A better wording is: "Connected to (subject/item) has anything been suppressed?"
You see this latter worded question is rather specifically more inclusive and likely to bring to view items, issues the first question would miss.
I raise these points because, in the exchange Vin and I had on the issue of him "not answering the question," what is clear in the sequence of posts is that he (automatically?) altered the question asked of him into a different question.
I will not get judgmental on why this might be, but simply state the observation.
It is an issue that all who would seek truth ought be alert to . . . the framing of questions, and the terms upon which you inspect and look at what it is you seek to understand will determine the outcome of your investigation.
RogerB
Posted by Challenge
Wowzers! If I knew how to do the 'emoticon' thing, I would send you prodigious amounts of hearts and flowers!
As it is, I will just continue to admire and respect you
Also, to agree with you on your 'take' of BT/CLs. I'm thinking that without them to care for the mechanics of running a body, *I* would be in deep doodoo. I am ever grateful to my team that takes whatever I put into my body and converts it to whatever the body needs to run on. I don't even think about body weight or vitamins or special nutritional needs, for example, because my *team* takes care of it wonderfully well.
Well.... That's just me. But I will be 79 in a week, so this quite obviously works for me. I have none of the ills associated with ageing, and I use no medication.
The automaticities that the BT/CLs handle for us are invaluable to us. The thought of auditing them "out" is a great disservice to us.
That is not to say that there are some BT/CLs that need to be 'educated' as to their condition. There are. That doesn't mean to throw them under the bus.
Challenge
Yes, you are right there, my precious Challenge!
Not only do they help "run the show" called the body, but I forgot to mention earlier that some of my spiritual team handle all sort of activities at a spiritual level as well.
I have a team that handles "perception" for me . . . this at a spiritual level.
The interesting thing is that this particular team has a "Prime Dream/Aspiration" type of "want" of LOVE . . . wanting to love, to experience it, and be loved in return, etc.
My prime thing is Knowingness/knowledge . . . I want to know
Now, this all works very well between me and my particular "perception" team . . . you see, they can lovingly reach and permeate that which I/we want to know . . . their love lets us in. If I'd simply only reached to know without the "love" element, I'd be less effective. Some areas reject a reach that doesn't contain any love
The subject of our spiritual connections is not something the be made nothing of . . . do so at your peril. It is a subject to fully comprehend and benefit from.
Rog
9th February 2010 01:50 PM
As has already been noted, I spent 12 years on New OT VII (S/NOTs); from mid-1982 to November 1994.
What I will write about here is what I observed when doing the OT Levels 3 to New OT7. However, to put this all in context, I should give you other information regarding my case state and state of Being as I went through these levels for it did have some bearing on my progress and the outcome.
Others, with a different setup, case state or state of Being and/or experience in the matter of spirituality and spiritual abilities, might have a very different outcome from doing these levels.
The first thing to say, however, is that the ostensible reason for doing these levels is to return to the person his/her powers to operate as a spiritual Being. The definitions and stated outcomes of the levels are “Cause over . . . . . “ (Though one level’s outcome is stated to be “Freedom from overwhelm.”)
However an address to one’s spiritual abilities and powers is not at all done: it is purely an exercise in “getting rid of” what putatively is stated to hinder or otherwise be an aberration to you.
This is an error in the technology as it in fact dismantles spiritual connections and alignments, and this leaves the person doing the R/Ds exposed, vulnerable and without the power relationships and/or mechanics they have often been dependent on without addressing the development of any replacement for that loss.
In my experience, and among many have I work with, the observation is that the spiritual teams and connections we have built up over the eons facilitate our operating by adding/lending their powers and abilities to the joint effort we engage in in existence.
A lot of this support, as it happens, ended up going on “automatic” to the extent we are often not quite aware that it is going on . . . rather like the “automaticities” one has running when driving a car—they are running and you don’t have to pay explicit attention to them.
I know of individuals who have had to do repair programs to restore their certainties on their capacities, powers and abilities following having dismantled these spiritual alignments. There are not many things as frightening to a Being as feeling they have lost their abilities, powers and capacities to perform or be, do, have as they are used to. It creates a frantic situation.
The “NOTs case,” as does OT3, deals with the spiritual connections one has. Tragically, as an approach, it deals with them negatively and destructively instead of positively.
It firstly invalidates these spiritual connections as being “degraded Beings,” and assumes they are to be gotten rid of. This is a colossally tragic assumption.
True, many of these spiritual connections had declined into degrees of disagreement and/or conflict that was solved by us each with negative solutions such that they may have been rendered “asleep,” unconscious, out of communication or into a condition of appearing to us as being as solid as mass.
This is nothing new in the realm of relationships between Beings . . . we see it at a human level, we even see it among loving couples and marriages. Relationships formerly wonderful, decline into conflict.
Other spiritual connections, as friends, became the walking wounded getting stuck in handling old incidents for us and on our behalf. This last noted scenario is totally beyond the compass of the standard Scn line up. It is not part of Scn technology that these spiritual connections might be friends and allies handling circumstances for and on our behalf!
A more correct and optimum approach is to honor the presence of the spiritual Beings we are connected to, and to restore the harmony of the optimum working relationship that had you connect in the first place.
Some of course may well have been unwanted connections when first made, but even so, the correct and positive way to handle it is to work with and process the Being such that the compulsive connection and behavior is eliminated, and an optimum scenario restored. Abuse of even these unwanted connections is a destructive action.
This looks like about the right amount and a good spot to make a page on the board.
Part 4 for next to come . . . . .
10th February 2010 07:26 PM
By the time I got to doing the “upper levels” I was fortunate to have had some truly amazing ascensions into spiritual awareness and ability to operate as such.
Apart from the one noted earlier in this submission by me of my “near death experience,” there is the 1963 incident described here on ESMB
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...820#post214820
wherein I was investigating the mechanics of the persistence of the physical universe, and I spotted something and, accidentally, everything vanished . . . this for both me and my friend I was doing the investigation with.
All was void. No physical universe, no bodies, no room, nothing. All I was aware of was my own spiritual existence and my knowledge. Eventually I got it all back by communing with the spiritual Beings I became aware of throughout that existence without a physical universe and triggering among us all the automaticity that would have the physical universe reappear and continue.
There are other instances of my use of spiritual abilities posted on ESMB for any who are interested in details.
I relate the above in the context of the spiritual condition and experience I “enjoyed” when I got onto the upper levels.
It is to be noted that at the time of this “vanishing of the physical universe,” the paradigm of Scn was based in the “Theta-MEST theory,” and that all there existed was simply the juxtaposition of the physical universe and spirit. The paradigm was that the biggest game in town was the physical universe. There was no mention or concept of earlier universes or domains of existence. I introduced that tech point into Scn in 1978 with a CSW to LRH.
I was familiar with the notions as believed/taught in Buddhist and related and derivative materials, and this experience of being without the physical universe, of feeling infinite—and for a while somehow “empty” yet at-one with all that existed, what ever it was, at a non-physical level—seemed to accord with those teachings of “the ultimate spiritual state.”
But that was short-live for as I began to fine-tune and focus my awareness, I began to be aware of the presence of other spiritual Beings. This was not because I had separated from them to view them—they were all throughout me, and I throughout and with them. We were simply in varying degrees of “size” and "density" as Beings throughout this shared existence—an existence that was all throughout me, throughout this infiniteness I existed throughout or as.
In retrospect, I would say that my non-awareness of other spiritual Beings immediately after the accidental vanishment of the physical universe was probably as a result of the shock of “everything vanishing.” It did “get my attention.” What I do know is that as I began to spiritually get active on coming to a handling of the situation, I began to become aware of the other spiritual Beings present.
It was with these Beings, by way of telepathic spiritual communication, that I sparked the “reactivation” of the automaticity behind the existence of the physical universe and its persistence into replicating and bringing the physical universe back.
And with this act, I was slightly aware of the situation that I was likely, to a degree at least, making myself dependent on these other Beings for the existence and persistence of the physical universe for me—but that was rather the least of my worries at that moment. My priority was to restore the familiarity of the physical universe.
From 1959 till I came off S/NOTs in November 1994, I had many different purely spiritual experiences either dealing with aspects of the physical universe, future time, and/or spiritually communicating to friends I knew across distance though/within the physical universe. But these were from the perspective of Scn tech and me as a sole Being trying to restore my pure self free from “all impediments” the Scn tech stated were there to be gotten rid of, including entrapment in the physical universe.
I didn’t know it, but from 1959 till the time I got onto OT3 I was maniacally trying to operate on a by-pass of “all the things/case” that were perceived to be “in the way” of me being able to operate and get the job done. And this, unwittingly, put and held my “spiritual teammates” into non-existence and occluded them to me.
Even on OT3 I was missing the truth of my spiritual connections, and that after all of the above.
On OT2 I ran into something that I now know to have been spiritual connection phenomena . . . I’ll not get into details, it is unnecessary. But the church response, again was catastrophic . . . the usual “no-speakie, no-say-anything” aghast looks, and the screw-up drama of trying to run something that was not mine . . . . hell, as I said in Pasadena last October, “This implant shit is a light lock, on the real deal. It’s in the physical universe, and that’s rather late on the chain!”
On OT3 I bought the story . . . after all, well, you know the scenario: all that this man had said to date had proved so far to be “correct.” Little did anyone know what a fraud was behind it all.
And the focus was on body Thetans—not spiritual connections per se . . . . the specific instruction was to look about the body and find these critters!
Well, recall I had spent years as the body par excellence (with the French pronunciation if you please!). I had spent years swimming 5-10 miles a day in intense training /RDs, and competition in do or die distance events. This tends to cause one to want to tell those rebelling, squeaking, in-pain little friends (who probably had a better idea of what was good for the body than me!) to shut up and get out of the way! There’s lots of suppressed pain at the highest levels of elite athletic endeavor.
So on OT3, I found some, and did the usual.
Then things began to shift. After a while, there wasn’t much, if anything, I could spot about or in the body; but my awareness began to shift to other spiritual connections off in other locations. These tended to be more in the realm of my own spiritual existence and/or “mental universe.”
It was here that I ran into a spiritual connection that did not resolve “with the usual” of OT3. This was the fellow who had become connected to me in an earlier universe than the physical universe that could only be resolved by correctly dating and locating our point of connection therein. This is the scenario I CSW’ed Hubbard on.
It seems my stunts of doing the “death dance” and the “blow the physical universe trick” in 1963 (apart from other neat little wizzes over the years) seemed to clean me up on the issue of bodily encrustations.
NOTs, the NOTs DR/D and S/NOTs for me had nothing to do with the body or “body Thetans.” It was a pure exercise in handling “spiritual connections.”
Remember, the paradigm was still that one had to get rid of all these “impediments” and “barriers to your freedom and ability” to operate as the true you!
So, for 12 years I worked, based on the Scn “standard tech” paradigm of getting rid of all the “thetans stuck or connected to me” that were “obviously impeding me and a barrier to my freedom of being my true self”!
In retrospect, I would say I sabotaged and destroyed some valuable connections . . . certainly I mishandled some valuable friends and, it appears so far at least, I lost some.
It is true, also, that I learned some things. It is also true that most of this damage is likely able to be repaired in the future, though it might not be in this body’s lifetime. Even this morning in session I recovered and repaired one such valuable old connection.
Bottom line: It is never wise to destroy or unmock. It is always wiser to seek to repair and optimize.
One’s spiritual connections can all be upgraded and optimized and brought into better working alignment that operates at a correct level of awareness.
This is getting a little long again . . . . the rest in Part 5 . . . The real juice!
RogerB
14th February 2010 02:16 PM
My observation is that one’s spiritual connections as apparent in present time come in all shapes, sizes, degrees of density, aliveness, friendliness or conflictiveness. Some, of course, exhibit evil.
And there is or has been interaction between you and your spiritual connections as well as interaction between those spiritual Beings themselves. Many different outcomes have resulted from these interactions and exchanges: some have resulted in construction and development of “things,” and some have resulted in continued interactions and relationships that span the spectrum from highly aware “dialogue” and interface down to unawareness of the phenomena and also unconsciousness and mystery.
Some connections are in such a state of unawareness to us, that we operate with them though as one with us. They are present, we are unaware of it, and we go along just as though we are alone without any awareness of any other presence melded with us. And this “unity” can be quite whole—they are totally at one with you.
These observations are not in respect to my own case only: it is as observed with respect to many individuals.
The above is the current human condition.
The big question is: how come? And what is all this about?
Much has been written relating to the above in the various religions. Their beliefs on the matter vary, but one set of beliefs that has been delved into extensively here on ESMB is that of the Buddhist and Hindu doctrines, and particularly the notions of Nirvana, Brahma and Brahmin and a putative relationship to “God” as is viewed in other religious belief systems.
See Vinaire’s thread “Oh! God!!!” http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11238
These concepts and beliefs are discussed in depth by many ESMB members.
I am familiar with the beliefs of the Buddhist and Hindu doctrines, and been to India twice and to other locations to inspect the scenario.
Personally, based on my actual experience and observation so far, and based on what I have learned from the experiences of others with whom I familiar, I find the beliefs as delineated in the Buddhist and Hindu doctrines of net, neti; Nirvana, Brahma and Brahmin and a putative relationship to “God” to be in error or incomplete, and certainly limiting and/or distracting from a full perception of what is available to be learned at the highest levels of existence.
See my posts #2 and #46 on the “Oh! God!!!” thread, linked above, that attempted to invite the participants out of the limiting paradigm inherent in those beliefs. Also see various posts in a similar vein on Vinaire’s “I Glimpsed the R6 Bank” thread here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...495#post304495 in posts #164, #355, #478, and on.
As noted in my earlier parts of this missive, there came a time when handling the OT3-NOTs “traffic” that I ceased dealing with “body thetans.” I became involved exclusively in dealing with spiritual connections located at distance within the wider realm of existence, which existence I spanned. Some, as noted, were hung up in earlier universes though still with connections or comm.-lines “attached” to me. Some of these connections were uncomfortable or even painful when enlivened. Some were wonderfully harmonious and empowering when revivified.
And it is to be noted that these particular spiritual connections I processed in NOTs and in S/NOTs, in particular, were not very often in any way connected to my physical body. Sometimes the connection was purely spiritual: spirit to spirit; and sometimes it was to or via my “mental universe.”
Fortunately, I eventually became aware of an alternative, more truthful and workable technology for recovery of own truth and the restoration of own true powers, abilities and states of Being. And in November, 1994 I abandoned my pursuit of S/NOTs procedures after almost 12 full years. And that ended my belief of almost 40 years that Scn was the “only way out.”
This is what I have learned in respect to the above since November, 1994.
Some of what I learned since 1994 is noted above, of course; but here is the “juice.”
One of the key, most important things in the technology of Knowlegism—and it is to be noted here that Alan W at one time called his body of work “Ascensionism”—is to recover for and have fully honored by the individual any and all prior spiritual ascension states attained so that the individual can then be processed and advanced based on and in the context of his or her highest attained states of awareness, abilities, powers, knowledge, truth and capacity for presence etc.
That is, one is processed from a position of strength, power and knowledge: not from a position of confusion, uncertainty, weakness, upset or even unknowingness.
I have spent the last 15 years on the action of recovering all of my priorly attained ascension states. In my case there has been much to clean up, and while I like to think I’m nearly “there,” I know it is not complete yet. Though much has been learned doing this action.
Much has been written by many who posit that “we all stem from an original single Beingness or presence.” It is posited that at some time in “the beginning” a single existence existed and that it split up into all of the Beingnesses we now observe as me, thee and all the other Beings in existence.
I have not found that to be the case.
What I have observed, experienced and processed in session is a series of events as follows. I found this to be so for other individuals whose advanced cases I am familiar with.
Long, long ago before my decline through many universes (or domains of existence) prior to the current physical universe, I existed quite happily as myself, and with no other apparent connections. Then, eventually, I became aware of the existence of another presence who emanated some form of “life” or energy. This interested me, and I wanted to know what the presence was. Other people who’ve had this experience sought to love the first other presence they encountered, some wanted to relate, others wanted to co-create. We each have our particular “thing” on this. We reached toward our first discovered other existence in our individual way, using our preferred basic attribute or spiritual quality.
As the game progressed, many more connections; all sovereign, competent whole Beings were accumulated. Each expressing themselves and exchanging life-force and manifestations of their powers, virtues, qualities etc. And the level of this exchange was such that there was perfect duplication of each others’ presence and actions.
In fact, it is interesting, as I was typing this right now, Virginia just returned from a day doing her Montessori Teacher Certification exercises, and interrupted to tell me what had happened for her. It is germane to the paragraph above.
The Montessori method treats children as sovereign Beings and does not “tell” them—it invites and allows the child to get active on its own volition and to discover for itself the particulars and lessons of the environment it is in. The magic of the method is that we adults provide the environment that is conducive to the child learning what is appropriate at each stage of its development.
To cut the long story short, Virginia and the children were out in snow covered Central Park. The kids are aged 3 to 5. This, like all Montessori “sessions” was “work” not play. The kids were allowed to go off and do their thing—no instructions, no must-do’s but, of course, adult care, observation and participation.
As a part of being in the “work” session, Virginia started building a snowman on her own. It didn’t take long before one, then another of the toddlers came up to inquire what she was doing.
“I’m building a snowman.”
“Oh, can I help! Can I help!” came the response from the kids.
“Sure,” was my sweet Virginia’s reply.
So the three of them got busy on the snowman construction. But it wasn’t long before other toddlers arrive to inquire what was going on.
Same routine.
Eventually over a dozen toddlers had joined the enterprise, all high on their participation in the co-creation of the snowman.
Ever noticed how toddlers love to help, co-create and contribute? They get high on being able to.
I couldn’t help being reminded of the game, long, long ago when a bunch of spiritual Beings got high on the enjoyment of co-creation and contribution to each other and each others’ creations and emanations.
Eventually, we rose to such heights of perfection and excellence in our co-creation, and duplication of each others’ presence and Being, that we became as one and ascended to an exquisite high in unity.
It was a magical, beautiful experience of unity, of being “at one,” even as one, such was the level of perfect duplication, love, co-existence and harmony of co-creation.
Then goofs were made. I’ll not articulate what I found my perception of them were. That would not be proper or prudent on an open forum.
But enough is to say that the union, the “oneness,” began a decline from its ecstasy down to a level of relationship and mood where it went negative and was shattered. And we went our separate ways with some degrees of pissed-offness.
In my personal experience, and it has been found with others I know, this sequence was our first ascension to an ecstatic high and then crash and burn. This appears the be the basic on the chain of what we humans experience when we have ascensions in auditing or training and education which then are “lost” due to subsequent restimulation (triggering) of the residual negatives on our cases.
There is colossal loss and upset locked up in the subsequent repeats of this phenomena along the time-track to present time down through the earlier universes (each of which went through this cycle), and also in the similar events within the physical universe.
Alan Walters articulated in his book “Gods in Disguise” the sequence of the earlier universes prior to the physical universe. I have found what he wrote to be valid.
It is to be noted these earlier universes were purely spiritual in nature, but they were also games domains of relationships wherein we did accumulate debris in the form of spiritual life force locked up in old conflicts, misunderstandings, non-comprehensions, upsets, losses, etc. This is the “what” of the accumulated charge, force and mass that is manifest in our “case.”
Each universe was an attempt by us to continue a relationship by solving the “unsolvable problem” of the prior universe or game scenario. (I prefer to view these earlier universes as “Domains of Existence” or “Games Domains.”)
The scenario being described or posited in Buddhist belief as being the highest level of spiritual existence describes a condition that exists many times along the “time trail” and has commonly occurred in each of the universes as we moved through our existence.
It has been stated on ESMB that the highest level of existence, as posited in Buddhism, is “unknowable.” I have not found that to be the case. I would say that to hold such a belief would indeed preclude one from being able to know the truth of the state however.
Some posit that this “ultimate truth” pre-exists any existence. I have not found that to be correct either.
We each exist, and we have engaged in relationships. The wisest course of any processing action would be to optimize those relationships; to recover our full volition and knowing exercise of our powers and abilities; and to recover knowledge, control and responsibility for what we have done and created.
The CofS NOTs tech does not do this. It violates these basic principles and unmocks relationships. That is the danger of the “upper levels tech” of OT3 through S/NOTs.
Based on my observations I have come to the belief that the physical universe is the result of a long chain of creations by us as part of our relationship, and that it is composed of the debris of our misaligned spiritual life-forced as occurred or developed down through the many universes of our relationship.
Each of these “universes” or games domains, including the physical universe, was created within our basic infinite Beingness. In other words, each of the universes are within you.
The trap we humans have put ourselves in is to have inverted (the “Power Split” I spoke of at the FZ Conference in Pasadena) to then think/believe that we are actually in or inside of the Game Domain that in fact is inside of us, our existence. Logic alone suggests that the only location these game domains could have been created at would have to be within the span of the creator (us). I have observed this to be so.
Thus the liability and danger of NOTs-S/NOTs is that it targets and executes the unmock of the relationships that developed the stability of the chain of solutions to the earlier catastrophes of lost games (universes), unsolvable problems, etc., without restoring the individual’s needed knowledge and powers required to correctly address these old lost games and restore optimum scenarios.
Note I used the word “relationships” there, not the word “terminal(s).”
The game of “existence” or “life” down through the universes is based on relationships. Without relationships there is no game, no exchange or reciprocation, no joy, no thrill of the sensation of the experience of creating to or receiving from another.
The NOTs “tech” trashes this principle, and fails to address the optimization of relationships.
Looks like this is enough for this post . . . .
Part 6 deals with some aspects of relationships.
Rog
15th February 2010 02:28 PM
I am reluctant to give out too many, or too much, of the processes freely. It is a matter of maintaining the trust placed in me as well as the fact that the venue from which they are available ought be supported. To make the tech available "for free" would, in actuality, unmock a very valuable resource. It's the old "by-pass and you put into non-existence" thing.
But for old pros like Nick, here is the type of processing one uses with one's spiritual connections . . . . ideally when they first manifest their presence for the PC.
Basically, "all of life is a process" . . . it is a series of actions that produce results/outcomes. Simply put, we each are doing actions to each other that produces a result!
Sometimes the outcome of the what we do and the how we do it produces a happy, enjoyable, mood uplifting outcome; and sometimes the outcome is a "downer" that brings about an unwanted outcome in the recipient.
And realize, communication is a process . . . it is an action that produces an outcome.
So, having "cleared" the word "process" . . . this is the simplicity of the handling of a newly revealed spiritual connection.
First wise thing to do is ascertain if it is an individual spiritual Being, or a team or "gang" of them.
Next: Where is it?
This can be a location in comparison to you spiritually, your mind, the physical universe, you body, or even in the context of time off in an earlier universe. Wonderful relief is gained by getting this correct.
Next: realize this spiritual Being, just like you, is hung up in handling "stuff." Hell, it might even be hung up in handling stuff on your behalf and for your benefit. At a minimum, it may be that it is hung up in handling an old situation, its solution to which is inadvertently impacting on you . . . . you should not take the fact that his old solution is unfortunate, as a personal attack on you!
The question to have answered is: What incident, mood or imagery is it/are they handling?
To be noted here is that unpleasant/unwanted "moods" affect us in ways that we want to "solve" them. Note that item "imagery" . . . the basic game at a spiritual level is by way of exchange of telepathically projected (and sometimes superimposed) images . . . these are holographic 3DH . . . not the Hubbardarian "picture" variety in flat 2D, though they first can appear that way.
Get the Being to itsa on the Incident, mood, image.
Ask the Being: What are you? This rehabs the Being's true state of Being, or if a team, that they are operating as a team (of individuals).
Next: ask, What process is the Being being forced to run on you?
Key question . . . . you see, the Being is being "forced" to run the process on continuum and automatically to solve the unwanted scenario it has had "all this time."
Address how it affected you, and pull off the consequences of the process and its effetcs . . . all of them
Now return the flow . . . What process are you being forced to run on the spiritual Being/Team?
Lift off the effects created and the consequences . . . all of them.
That should keep you happy for a while . . . .
There is more to the full extended R/D that applies, if it applies.
Sometimes there has been a "Third Party" in the background.
Bottom line, you want to undo the automatic conflict and misdirected action, and restore harmonious operating basis between you.
The above is a simple and first step handling for the easy traffic on this subject. Some of it can get more complex, and needs other handlings, lots of which are available.
I'm off to watch the Olympics now . . . I was an avid skier, and did do speed skating (short course) racing . . . needless to say, it has my attention
Rog
18th February 2010 02:27 PM
Posted below is what Alan said in answer to Homer Smith??
It's all available on: ftp://ftp.lightlink.com/pub/archive/acw/
I'll be posting more on this later
Alan's answer:
A Code is basically the rules, disguises and creations by which you run your lives by in order to attain what you WANT.
A secret code means hidden rules, hidden disguises, hidden creations, hidden keys to understanding what has been encrypted.
Having the Being's secret Code, is the key to decoding and finding those rules, those diguises, those creations, etc.
Each being has a Key Code and Counter Code at the formation of his building his own universe and all susequent universe of his.
Ron alluded to this in The Factors. In the beginning was the decision to be.
My question had always been, "BE" what?
For whatever you decide to be you sure as hell exclude "trillions of other Beingnesses."
Therefore the choice of "BE" must be mighty important to the Being.
The Prime Code therefore had to precede the being's choice of "BE". For one only chooses a beingness to carry out a Postulate and Vision.
As a Postulate is basically a stated WANT.. It made sense that the KEY to all cases was a WANT. To have a WANT you must have a comparable NOT WANT.
All games are composed this way. The game of football. Whats WANTED at all times is the football. And to prevent the other team from having the football, and so it goes.
So the Prime Axiom Code is that Quality or Attribute of Theta does a Being prize above ALL other. The reverse is what Quality or Attribute of theta does the being NOT WANT. This goes across all flows.
It of course occurred long before the English language. So the Being uses English to label it, it goes far beyond that in holographic concept.
So a Prime Axiom Code is what the Being "MOST WANTS" for itself and ALL others.
The opposite side is what the being "MOST DOESN"T WANT" for itself or others.
By knowing this the Being can now play ALL games knowingly. A very big step forward.
Hope this clears up any confusion. The dictionary definitions are very accurrate, they only lack the importance factor.
Alan W.
Originally Posted by nw2394
Tried this process again - hmm - rather interesting - had sort of expected to find what I usually find - someone that wanted to leave - but no. For all this talk of "team mates" I'd only ever run into the odd one - this time quite a bunch of them showed up.
Positive suggestion? Hmm - well you can never rule that out - or maybe they like this style...
Nick
Respect, honor and appreciation between Beings is the way to friendship, yes?
I did not respond to your earlier report on using the process, it didn't feel right to have commented at that time . . . seemed incomplete.
As noted in an earlier reply to FoTi, the final step on the R/D is to find "what action or ability of the Spiritual Being/Team you are willing to acknowledge and appreciate."
Then, "Telepathically acknowledge and appreciate your . . . (what in essence is a recovered friend) . . . Sp. Teammate/Team."
There are a number of other processes and actions that can be applied, and as one gets into recovering or dealing with some of the deeply buried Beings, they become needed processes. But for now you guys who tried the R/D you're doing great.
Rog
24th February 2010 01:19 PM
The running of OT2 is done by "repeater technique" for want of a better word or name. One repeats, as in creates again, the concepts listed in the materials.
This act of repeating the concept, intention etc., (the item) . . . and doing so under your own volition does the following.
Hubbard stated it discharged "the items" . . . . that is relatively correct and a workable description of what happens.
There is another, higher level way of expressing what happens doing this "repeater" process . . . . in earlier Scn tech, we were taught that you could "take over the automaticity" of that which was running out of control if you knowingly repeated the action.
There is also an even higher level reason of why this process of repeating the "item" works . . . for that I refer you to my presentation at the FZ Conference in Pasadena . . . . it'll save me a lot of typing. It's in tape #5.
Basically, by knowingly fully, and with sovereign volition, creating or re-creating the concept or "item" to be discharged or eliminated or otherwise returned to being under your full, knowing control and responsibility; you trigger into replication that which has been on involuntary or automatic existence and by fully "viewing as-is" its existence and circumstance of existence the negative charge and power to involuntarily replicate and run you on automatic evaporates into positive free life-force that is now available to you.
Note that this process of "repeater technique" (for a short name of it . . . but not to be confused with the technique of the same name used in early Dianetics) is an action you do.
I'll not get into discussing Vin's way of doing OT2 . . . . you can read about it on his various threads. But I will point out that to simply "meditate" on a concept, or to do his KHTK approach has the omission of not causatively, knowingly and with volition triggering into visibility or replication that which you want to view as-is and know!
The trap with the OT2 materials is that what is there is not just the original "implant" . . . . what is also there are the numbers of times they were later triggered into involuntary replication in real life and thus creating each time a new incident of the item's existence.
Repeater technique gets them ALL. (If done correctly and fully)
RogerB
24th February 2010 06:49 PM
Further to my post # 495 on this thread on the issue of running OT2.
The first thing to say is that the OT2 materials are merely an implant that occurred in the physical universe, but which sit atop your own real power and earlier conceiving of or intending the concepts contained therein. The implants were designed to pervert and/or occlude your powers and certain of your truths.
Personally, I have run so many implants using the variations of LRH's tech, I do not remember now precisely what belongs where on his stuff. I say "his" stuff, because it is not necessarily my stuff . . . and even if it were my stuff it is now well and truly handled.
I tell you the above because we old-timers ran the first iterations and releases of implant materials in 1963 . . . long before the CC or the OT materials came into being.
The process used was designated "3N," and in those days the items of the line plots were actually called out to the PC and repeated by the auditor until null on the meter
Like lead balloons, that was a right good cock-up. We saw some very sick people
We actually had a page-long list of different named implant series to handle . . . and whether some of them made it onto the later CC and OT level materials to run or not I don't recall, nor care.
Personally, the CC appeared to do nothing for me. I did it, attested, and like: so what's new?
OT2 was a slightly different kettle of fish. I did it, and while doing it did experience something quite new. I felt I got free from something and regained an ability.
It's only today, after a lot of correctly addressing my case doing repairs and ascension recovery actions that I understand what happened.
It may have happened for others, so I'll relate the info in case it is useful.
What happened for me while using the repeater technique on the items of the materials, I was not only triggering and discharging the charge and/or BPC on the implant items/concepts and their later iterations and/or involuntary replications (restims), but I blew on past that and discharged the charge/BPC on my own earlier and basic power/ability and/or concept of the item being repeated.
On the occasions that this occurred, it was a whole other, different level of result than that of merely "nulling the item."
Here a whole scenario of occlusion and/or negative existence evaporated, and live energy manifested and my own true power and ability flourished . . . note: it was not just that something quietened down and no long read on the meter . . . it was gonzo, and now my power sparkled! It was living lightening stuff.
Tomorrow, just to put this OT2 stuff to rest, I'll let you in on an alternative way of to progress a case optimumly without telling a client what they have to run and when, and dragging them through a lot of shit they really don't need to deal with.
Fact is, the PC only has to deal with that which, in his or her particular case, he or she has to deal with
That should make our resident oldest and wisest Mystic happy No more "Lips Hubbard Spew."
Rog
25th February 2010 09:57 AM
Originally Posted by mate
Aha! Vinaire, now I understand, from where you are coming. But let me describe a phenomenon, which most of us have experienced , but the name of which, distracts from understanding it. It is mental telepathy.
We used to rescue, rehabilitate native birds, and foster-care native chicks. Where we are now, we simply encourage them. A number of years ago, I noticed a strange phenomenon associated with the birds when a visitor appeared. At the time, I had a flock of sparrows and near them, a flock of rosellas, all feeding. With appearance of the visitor, the sparrows flew off all together as a flock to a tree near them with their wings flapping in unison. Then about a second or two later the rosellas flew to another tree in a different direction again with their wings flapping in unison. Then I saw the reason, my visitor.I realised that the flock sparrows were sharing a common thought, and that the flock of rosellas were also sharing a common thought but different from that of the sparrows. Subsequently, I realised that thoughts were not part of the physical universe, that each got the thought simultaneously, each as it own. I subsequently realised that this phenomenon explains the exact nature of instinct and of mental telepathy.
Why did I give this information to you? Because you are trying to explain the phenomenon of knowing as part of the physical universe. Time keeps creeping in your interpretations of what I have written. I realise it is difficult not to use a physical universe environment, when attempting understand a concept.
I do suggest you avoid using scientology terms when trying to come to grips with a new idea, particularly when the idea is outside scientology's scope. I'm sure this is the barrier that you are experiencing.
Regards, David.
A very astute observation, that which I have bolded in red above, David.
What you have described is a "oneness" of Being by a number of individuals duplicating, as one, a thought, perception, intention, etc.
The phenomenon is also observed throughout the insect world, and you'll see it in the action of shoal fish and krill.
Rupert Sheldrake also alluded to this in his work.
This is also a phenomenon that exists on our own very early time trail in "earlier" outside of and beyond the physical universe existence.
Individual Beings, spiritual "you's," in unity and harmony as one enjoying the "magic" of the co-empowering co-action and co-creation such affords.
The only problem that occurred with it was that there came a time when either: a) some got bored with it, b) some felt they lost the or a sense of their own existence, c) some thought they'd "EPed" (completed and accomplished) their intention/goal/dream & aspiration and inadvertently ceased the successful action and/or, d) degrees of misalignment and/or disharmony of action/thought occurred such that negative "charge" (misaligned and out-of-control spiritual life-force) began to flash and become too painful to endure which caused the union to shatter. Or, more correctly, because of it, we shattered the union.
One can take one's own pick from the options (not all listed above) of what happened for them personally to lead them to individuate from the union . . . but be sure of one thing; and that is the fact that in separating, it was done with a less than optimum handling and the carrying of some BPC and pissed-offness forward into PT. And the rest, as they say, is "history."
Rog
28th February 2010 02:55 PM
OK, I'm catching up . . . . been busy.
Originally Posted by CarmeloOrchards
The codes auditing was a listing process.
The subject contained in the following article by Dr. Max Sandor is similar, but derived from book one style auditing.
http://orunla.org/pnohteftu/ch66.html
I don't know if Alan's center does codes auditing anymore.
The "Codes" are still on the line-up at the Ranch. But it is up in the higher level address to the case . . . this after the client has been properly and fully set-up, including having done some training and become spiritually literate.
There is also a solo-auditing course slotted in in the "advanced" or upper levels of the "Ascension Levels Chart," though it is not Codes related
Originally Posted by CarmeloOrchards
If, as in any listing process, the right items aren't gotten, the consequences to the PC can be heavy and destructive. One of Alan's team, named Eric Woolery, Alan's "master processor," had a record of codes' clients that included: one death, one house burned down including a life time worked manuscript that was not saved elsewhere, I lost half a million dollars in six months, two people ended up drinking heavily for six months, three divorces, several bankruptcies -- there was more, but you get the idea.
Eric couldn't audit his way out of a paper bag.
Even with the half million dollar loss, the codes, once I figured out the bug(s), was worth it to me. no regrets. It takes an auditor that is wiling to and able to match you in hugeness. An auditor that can allow you (not just by words alone) to be fully yourself, with no boxes or judgmental stuff that you, the PC, have to fit into.
Yes, Eric W was/is a disaster. He sabotaged the tech and the lines in more ways that one. Eventually, Alan did fire him from staff, calling Eric, if I remember the words Alan spoke to me correctly, "an evil little shit!" Either that or just telling him he was "a little shit!" But when Alan related this to me, the venom and dismay he had towards what had gone on, and towards Eric seared the atmosphere around me.
Problem was, Alan had no other trained to deliver that R/D.
Several things on this. CarmelO is correct in that some folks did get wrong items . . . or, it may also be that they failed to get the completeness and a correct comprehension of the "item" they did get.
CarmelO and I did have discourse on this issue at the time, coming to it from different perspectives.
CarmelO, as he rightly says of himself, is a "Qual type guy." I tended to approach it from an executive type approach or as an educator and tech developer rather than as a Review Auditor.
To me, the fact that of the nearly 200 folks (actual figure was about 190-198?) who had done the "Codes Course and R/D" very, very few stayed on the lines. Folks simply dropped off the lines.
CarmelO did find some he was in contact with that had "wrong item/out list" scenarios.
From my memory, these were mainly or all regarding the client's negative Code.
The thing that was omitted in the tech materials and from being a part of the hatting and education on the issue was something I found and wrote up on the Kn equivalent of ESMB at the time, and which Alan did an Aha! on and agreed as correct, was the fact that the Negative Code spanned the spectrum of the mood scale in a way that the Positive Code did not.
And because of this, the Negative Code did change expression, and even concept . . . so, part of the source of the problem of clients getting their "right item" was: at what level on the mood scale (Expanded Tone Scale) did the person contact the Negative Code . . . that is a two-fold thing, what was the mood level expression of the Neg. Code and what was the mood level of the client in approaching the entire subject.
I will give examples of this.
Elsewhere on this thread I have posted Alan's write up for public consumption on the Codes. He indicates that, in one context, they are your most wanted wants.
So, pick a want (for Christsakes don't try and do a self listing on that to try and find your "right item" . . . ) . . . better still let me grab an item that lots of people yap on about
HAPPINESS. This is for example reasons only . . . this is really not very likely to be a Code item.
So, at the very top of the mood scale, there is a scenario wherein there is no contact with "happiness". It is simply an uncontacted thing. Then, you contact some happiness and you think this stuff is a real WOW, let's have more of it, and you want it to continue
So now you have a juxtaposition of a positive happiness to a negative no-happiness . . . . no problem there. It works fine
Now you begin to decline down the mood scale. We all did it.
Happiness continues on as your positive want (even if troubled), but the and your aspects of the negative side of things changes. The no-happiness morphs into an opposed not-wanted! Then, when you are pissed enough, you go through the Power Split and change or reverse your polarity and vector on the issue and go anti-the whole scenario . . . now your negative code is actually opposed to your positive Code and destructively so.
And, of course, you continue to decline, and eventually the whole scene becomes a failed scene, then lowered you begin to substitute wants and games for what you really, originally wanted; and then eventually, you sink so low that you are in delusion about your original true wants . . . like, it has become "What Happiness? What is happiness, what the hell are you talking about?" Life is all and always ugly, hated unhappiness. And so on.
And the other joker in the pack is that this spectrum of mood aspects of one's Codes has gotten hung up in various expressions or levels at various times differently in different games/universes, etc. So any of its expressions are a "right item" . . . depending on where it applies.
The other issue that applies here that was not taken up at the time publicly, but can be now as a consequence of what has been already put on this thread, is that your spiritual teammates (STMs) can and often do have different Codes to you . . . I subsequent to getting my own Codes in November 1994 found I have two STMs with different Codes to me and to each other . . . which Codes, by the way do complement mine even though they are different.
I ran into one "Codee" from the old Dallas days who had this problem till revealed . . . . she was in degrees of doubt on the certainty of what her Codes were until we found one was hers and the other belonging to a STM.
And, there is an additional factor. Essentially, nearly all of the Codees were ex-Scn, and that is why Alan considered they were suitable and competent to go onto the action.
The trap in this was two-fold:
a) Most of them were career PC's, and they were looking for the "One-Shot-Clear" phenomenon . . . and the Codes were promoted as the "key to the case" . . . which they are!
b) They all carried forward lots of BPC and earlier ascensions scenarios which, in my view, were not correctly handled/recovered . . . I know mine were not . . . and this is one aspect of Eric W's superficial screwy processing that messed things up.
Another thing on why these Codees dropped off line is that, I know of no one who actually completed the full "Prime Source Axioms (Codes) Course" and all its drills and related processes and exercises . . . . they only did enough to get hatted to go into session for their magic one-shot-clear shot! Went out on a high, didn't keep applying the tech, and crashed.
Originally Posted by CarmeloOrchards
Basically the codes are basic basic to GPMs.
BTW: Once I had figured out what had happened to me, I phoned a bunch of my friends, who had gotten codes auditing, and where it was warranted, fixed the out lists over the phone.
I wrote up my actions, and my findings re Eric's "auditing," and gave it to Alan. I earned an enemy for life. Even after Eric, years later, had left, and was now on the shit list for years of squalid actions, I was dirt. No good deed goes unpunished.
Alan's "thing" at the time was that he used to get very easily pissed at the idea of "people complaining about an outness but not 'coming and giving a hand.'" He had degrees of difficulty accepting info and input on negative scenes from those "on the outside" who weren't "contributing." . . . . I know I got negatively handled in that context . . . Alan having expressed it so.
My response being, "Well, I could have ignored the scenario, assumed no responsibility for anything and just left it be to blow up on you, or I could choose to inform you so you can get going, based on the info, to address and correct it . . . after all, I am not able to correct it from here, if I was an executive in charge in the area I would. But I'm not!"
Alan was massively overworked. Not only did he take on the research hat . . . and that alone is a monster, and dangerous job, but he took on the financing of the entire project (some of which was done by him as a very successful gambler Oh, secrets, Oh, secrets! ) and then he had to train his staff then manage the entire operation as an executive dealing with the nonsense and stupidities of those who wanted to live off of what he had created.
For my part, I had my hands full with my own projects, but eventually committed to join him on staff to help the show along and arrive in March, 2006. I would have arrived with $600,000 available to promote the tech and a personal regular income from fixed sources well in excess of the national median and thus not wanting nor needing any salary from being on staff.
At the end of December 2005, Alan told me not to come . . . but that is another story for another time.
RogerB
1st March 2010 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by nw2394
Another "joker" factor is that all of us (IMO, multiple times in the past) have got ourselves caught up in one religion or another - many of which, including Scn to a significant degree - but also including at least to some degree every major faith today as far as I can see - which focus on things like "native state" and that the path to achieving such things is by avoiding wants - or getting rid of compulsive wants - which can generalise into opposing having any purpose whatsoever in the extreme case. This would be all very interesting but not that important if it weren't for the fact that some of this activity is accompanied by what Kns would call major ascension states.
So you go along with your pet want of "bananas for all", and then get a major, pro survival looking conclusion that all bananas are bad - and not only bananas - but strawberries - and damson fruit and all the flaming possible foods in any possible world are all bad and everyone had better learn that in order to save themselves they had darned well better not have anything to do with food except maybe to eradicate it. Death to all farmers
And death to anybody pedalling a religion that says you can eat too
Nick
I agree, Nick.
What you write above (highlighted in red) is rather an astute and accurate observation.
Doing any practice that has you feeling in any way changed such that you believe you are bettered or have ascended to any higher state can fix you in feeling you have solved the riddle of the universe(s).
It is what one can observe in "born again Christians" and among the Buddhist/Hindu practices, for example, as some we might all be more familiar with. But I have seen it in almost all cultures and "religious" or spiritual practices I have investigated around the world.
The situation I observe is that these practices are quite limited and truly incomplete in terms of what is actually there to be dealt with in order to be fully, truly free. Yet they assert they have the absolute, final and total answer.
My response to that is go have a look at the societies or outcomes such produce . . . and if one is honest one comes to the very rapid conclusion that something is at least "missing" or "out" in the belief or practice.
You see, one's "wants chain" is where one's real power, energy and life-force has been applied and directed. It's also where one's real power, energy and life-force has been misapplied and misdirected. And it is this highly volatile charge that hits a person when they approach it, which impact of charge typically drives the individual away from the area . . . and certainly the area will have been smothered by occlusion, masking devises and solutions thus making it hard to fully perceive and experience.
So, the observation is that, merely doing a passive mediate or prayer to God in the area doesn't get much of a needed complete job done. Typically, only superficial charge comes off . . . though the person will feel some relief.
I've seen the same thing among the Balyran of South East Asia, the Ifa in Africa, the Sufi in the Middle East.
The Kahuna of Polynesia and in particular, Hawaii, do have some real operational capacity . . . though like all these cultures, their practice is limited to their operational paradigm. Sadly, the idiot white man made strenuous efforts to outlaw the Kahuna practices when he settled Hawaii, and prejudice against these practices developed as the Hawaiian society developed.
I would say that anyone who believes that a spiritual Being is merely, only "a consideration" is seriously avoiding the real charge and life-force that is truly present.
Rog
1st March 2010 05:17 PM
RogerB-Quote
The thing to know about this power split phenomena is that once you've gone through it, you have an automatic opposition to your wants and the attaining of your wants in place that can either be on continuum automatically or be triggered outside of your control.
Originally Posted by Hatshepsut
Roger, you got any tech on this? How can this be triggered outside your control? Is it then a whole 'nother person, or just a valence or automaticity (i.e. machinery?)
I've seen more than one good fellow chewing himself up over this. It was usually the bigger ones who had a shortage of oppositions of comparable cleverness.
Hats,
The Power Split itself is a solution . . . it's what was done to solve the situation we were confronted with or suffered that we did not want to experience. That is why it is such a bitch.
And like many "solutions," even serfacs, they sit there doing there thing as they were designed/created to do. Problem is when on auto they can do their thing when inappropriate; otherwise if dormant can be triggered into operation by events around one.
In the strictest terms, it is you acting out an auto solution . . . the bad news it is you opposing your own true wants . . . you had a want you now "don't want" and oppose.
It's quite nuts, spiritual insanity, actually; but that's what we have done to ourselves down along through the time trail.
It's one of the reasons we are now so spiritually incapacitated . . . folks running around denying their true qualities and capacities. Folks come up with all kinds of additional solutions to this also. Things like telling you "God is cause, it's not really you"; and that "you are really only a consideration or creation of . . (slot in whatever the religious deity or Supreme Being fits here) . . " etc. People often are into the denial of themselves!
The only handling I know for it is the following:
1) recognize the phenomena exists . . . don't label it as something else from some other belief system . . . this is NOT "the same as Hubbard's emotional curve" or anything like it . . . this is no "curve": it's a violent reversal of self that inverts your positives to negative.
2) Be willing to experience it when you are advancing your case in processing/training.
3) be willing to experience and know the circumstance that led you to having to create this (unfortunate and erroneous) solution . . . it is only a massive creation cum intention. Or, in Scn terms, a postulate of yours.
4) be very smooth with your use of Repeater Technique (as presented by me in Pasadena) and the charge handling and unpleasant sensation/low moods handling techniques and processes. This is used to undo the need for the solution and the solution itself.
5) be very smooth in handling identities . . . for we did create ourselves as . . . the "as" being an identity or Beingness in order to implement and carry out the solution.
6) realize we have implemented this solution a number of times . . . though there is a key basic one: that is the catastrophic basic one that fires this whole chain.
7) to unravel this you will need a comprehension of what your true basic virtues, qualities, strengths, powers and characteristics are as a spiritual Being . . . reason being is that it was these that were sabotaged and inverted, and it is these that you have to be prepared to perceive and restore when the area opens up and you start making contact with it. And, by the way, it is this last point #7 that so many are in denial of and avoiding . . . we see it on ESMB all the time. We saw it on this thread very recently.
I will be posting more on this thread, as there are still some loose ends to tie up
Rog
2nd March 2010 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Hatshepsut
Thanks Roger. I was hinting for an Alan Walter perspective on the phenomena. Or is it yours? I suspected it might be self/self.
Alan didn't publish much about the phenomenon.
What I have written and spoken on is mine.
He mentioned it in one or two lectures and noted it for public consumption in a couple of written pieces. He labeled the phenomenon "Power Split" I didn't. I didn't talk much about my early 1990's discovery, and hadn't put a label on it but just saw it a polarity/vector reversal.
My first public mention of the thing was in the Pasadena lecture . . . though I had mentioned it to Alan in private. When he was alive, I tended to put my "discoveries" on his lines so we could compare notes in a manner that might lead to tech advancement and so it could be included in his published material if appropriate.
One of the things Alan alluded to in his lecture on it was the act of splitting one's Beingness to oppose one's own wants.
I haven't seen it quite like that; though I do see that, as a result of the Power Split and many other variations on a basic theme of solutions to unwanted situations one does change one's existence or Beingness to pursue such solutions. A GPM or our Games Matrix construct diagrams this phenomena.
But the thing is holographic; it's a solution superimposed on you and the environment wholly where you are.
The thing to get one's head around on these hugely spiritual actions is that, outside of the physical universe, they can be really weird!
Example, one can create (I have done this in the past, but I won't suggest any of my items are right for you ) . . . I created an existence that was still all me but which was appearing to be in two parts . . . that which I was being and willing to experience and that which I was unwilling to experience and thus not being! Thus I (appeared to) exist in two parts: a not wanted to be part that was being opposed by the wanted to be part that I was willing to be/experience.
One of my observations . . . though this is really for another post . . . is that the physical universe has one very key difference to the earlier spiritual universes beyond it, and that is, the notion of "separate" has the addition of a spatial gap of "emptiness" or distance between things.
This is not always so (if ever) in the spiritual universes . . . you could almost look at it in terms of the magnetic fields around magnets . . . play with two magnets and you'll see the fields can meld and be one and yet also be localized as though separate . . . but in actuality since these magnetic fields are infinite (as with EM radiation, they simple reduce in intensity in inverse to distance) they never attain separation with a "gap" of "empty" space between them.
Our spiritual presence with each other is rather similar . . .
Rog
2nd March 2010 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Hatshepsut
Roger, could you link me to the Repeater Technique you spoke about in Pasadena?
I also found this link interesting. It was a link CarmeloOrchards gave me. The little purple notebook on how to escape from this universe. A wussy title for a wowser document.
Hats,
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14524
Tape #5 . . . at the very end.
Rog
Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker
Top down processing, no?
Mark A. Baker
The LRH way of doing it focuses on the negative. You know the drill, you find the "cut communication" or whatever. Have 'em itsa, E/S if needed, FN, end off!
Does an address to restoring optimum communication and harmony take place? Not particularly.
If you're doing a list correction type action this type of approach is OK as it finds what has to be corrected like, the wrong item, missed item, O/R list or such and you then fix it.
But look at this scenario by comparison.
The PC is glum and can't spot what went out. Or the guy collides with an area of case that he can't resolve. So we do an assessment.
Here's a classic duo of items as examples of what tops the lists.
"Connected to (area being address) was (or is) there an honored presence?"
or
"Connected to (area being address) was (or is) there an ascension?"
So what happens with this approach to things? If, for example, one of these happens to be the item; the wanted, ideal of the positive that has been/was messed up is instantly brought to view . . . . and the PC now is viewing his case, not from the perspective and aspect of upset or occlusion, but from the position of the power and knowledge of the positive.
In practice, the PC goes . . . "Wow, shit yes! I was wonderfully present, loved and loving, and then . . yip, yap, itsa" . . . and the whole thing unravels.
At worst, if the client is a newbie type case, victimish or very buried, the negative items later on toward the end of the list will give you the "cut comm" type of what screwed things up . . . . but you still need to address and process the positive of good, harmonious communication to put it back and restored in place.
Sometimes, you might even need to do an assessment on the positive item if things don't unravel when first found.
It goes like this.
Item found: Honored Presence. PC itsa's but no VGI's. Now you assess "Honored Presence."
"Connected to honored presence, has there been (or was there) . . . ?" And you find the what screwed it up
If "An Ascension" was the item, it usually needs an appropriate R/D to clean up. They generally do not restore on itsa alone.
Rog
7th March 2010 06:34 PM
OK, there is an incomplete tech point from my post #504 on this thread, and earlier.
I had made the tech point that it ain't necessary to dive in and run everything, or even any at all, of OT II and all that implant stuff.
This I know will startle some "tech purists."
The deal, however, is that you only need to run and handle on any case that which needs be run to restore the Being, the client, to his or her optimum scenario.
Telling them what is there on their case to run, or that such and such is a must to be run, is a bit of a violation of "do not evaluate the PC's case," no?
In my own case, I had "keyed out" of the Physical Universe (it vanished and I had to knowingly put it back for me and another) in 1963. This tended to put me rather beyond the need to run piddling little implants that had occurred at some obscure time within in it.
As I said in Pasadena, "In the scheme of things, that implant shit is a rather late lock on the real deal . . . . it happened in the physical universe, and that is rather late on the chain of things!"
The object of the exercise of all our processing and training etc., is to restore to the person his or her true state of Spiritual Being, awareness, powers and abilities etc.
And frankly, the only way that is going to happen is by addressing the Spiritual Being, and its awareness, powers and abilities etc. Though it is true, there is occasion when an approach to impediments to the Being's awareness, powers and abilities and state of being needs address.
So what is a workable approach to all this?
Alan Walter observed, rightly, that to get the best gains for the client you need to address exactly what the client is sitting in and needs to handle in PT as the case "opens up."
Thus the "line up" in Knowledgism is to address what the client wants and has attention on in the direction of attaining what the client wants. Life itself is going to cause what needs handling on the case to manifest or get in the way of the client attaining his optimum.
But what can happen on the way to attaining the optimum state for the client, is that "case bugs" can manifest.
There are variations on a basic theme of "case bugs" . . . As processors we've all seen them, and I suspect there is no PC who hasn't experienced them.
The trick when such occurs is to do an assessment . . . . one of the item on the Kn assessments for such occasions is, "A Programmed Incident?" (Implant?)
If yes, then it is time to address such, not before if ever.
The handling then is another assessment that detects the exact concept, item, issue, thing that has been triggered that is bugging the case. We have specific handlings for the various things that it might be.
But, we only deal with and handle the specific thing that is in the way and bugging the case . . . . we have seen that it in unnecessary, and unwise, to drag the client through that whole bloody silly parade of stuff that actually is not bugging him or her and of no interest.
The object of the enterprise is to restore the client to being able to operate and advance his or her true powers and Beingness . . . .
Dealing with every thing in all of the cosmology of everything in all of one's past events is about as important as telling the client that "all his past deaths are catastrophic, and that in order to be free he has to address each and every one of them and run them all out!" What utter bullshit would that be! That is about how silly it is to dump the idea that all these "implants" must be run at a certain time and how etc! It's stupid, stupid!
Roger